KM: Ok, so I really want to talk to you about some of the summer programming you ran at Globalkids that used digital badges. Can you start by describing your previous role at Globalkids?
JR: I was a Director for the Digital Leadership Learning (former OLP). I was responsible for managing programs around the city teaching digital skills such as game design, programming, and interactive storytelling. The programs took place at a different locations and types of institutions such as New York Public Schools in the Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn. Some of them also took place at other informal spaces such as NYSCI, AMNH, Brooklyn Museum, etc. Part of the responsibilities also included securing funds and collaborations with partners. For example, the iDesign program was a NSF funded project in collaboration with Hofstra University and Public Schools in Long Island, NY. http://dllglobalkids.weebly.com/blog/archives/07-2014
KM: Let’s talk about the summer programs run in 2012. Can you describe the system of badges you used in Virtual Video Project and Race to the White House?
JR: I worked on the Race to the White House, a location based game using geo-caching to engage youth in discussions about political issues. I wrote a chapter describing the project, including the badge system, in detail here:
Civic engagement and geo-locative media: youth create a game to discuss political issues
KM: How was that badge system designed to support learning? What design choices did you make to best support your intended learning outcomes?
JR: The badge system was designed in collaboration with several members of the team at Global Kids. The curriculum was written and based on the learning objectives, the badge system was designed using those learning objectives. We were also interested in creating a metric to assess skills aligned with the workshops and overall goals of the program, for example, measuring public speaking skills, GPS as a technology, etc.
KM: Were there any successes you had from your perspective from this system?
JR: When I look back at the actual design of the badges, I think as an educator, it was very useful. It allowed me to think about the concrete outcomes that these activities were going to have. I would think, I want a kid to be able to describe what is a GPS signal. I want them to describe how a cell phone receives a signal from a satellite. Having to design badges around those concepts was very useful; it was very clear to me after I designed that program what it was that kids were going to accomplish.
Also, there was explicit thought about soft skills vs. hard skills. I remember that one of the badges was public speaking, so we built into the program a presentation in the Brooklyn Public Library where youth could talk about what they did. That was really successful, the way that badges allow you as an educator to create a very strong defined curriculum.
KM: I remember that there was student choice allowed, you had more badges available than you expected any student could get, which isn’t something you always see in the design of badge systems. I was wondering if you could talk about that decision.
JR: We were always thinking about a game design studio with specific roles that students will take. One will be the designer, another one will be the researcher, another one will be the programmer. Based on what roles they navigated towards, they would get the corresponding badges.
KM: How did the youth in your program respond to the badges? Any specific stories you can tell?
JR: In general, the students responded either in a negative way or with indifference. From my observation, they were required to do too much. They had to submit evidence to earn the badge, and this before they signed in and went through the process of validating their credentials. They also had to understand the badge itself.
I remember at the end of the program we did a presentation, and we asked one of the students to come up and speak about badges. She was very reluctant to do it and went to talk about it almost unwillingly.
It was more a tool for us as educators to think about what were the learning objectives and make sure we were delivering the content with those goals in mind. It was not very popular with the kids or with the facilitators who wanted to guide the youth through the process.
KM: What about it wasn’t very appealing to youth?
JR: These badges were designed for these kids, but they were never asked to come to the table and think about these badges. We never asked them, what do you think about these things? I think what they did not like the most was all the steps they had to follow to complete the badges. First you apply for the badge, then you provide evidence, etc.: it felt like you were filling out an application or a survey. Every day they were presented with the badges that they could earn that day, and at the end of the day we left time for them to go through the badge submission process. They had to articulate their learning which is great to see kids say things like “I really deserve this because of A, B and C.” But it was very conceptual for them, mainly because the badges came from adults who did not talk to the youth in the process of designing the badges. It probably felt very abstract, very jargony to the students. Like the word “evidence.” What’s that for a kid? What does “provide evidence” mean? They very much saw it as extra work they had to do at the end of the program. And it was work that… wasn’t very organic, it felt like an extra thing they had to do.
KM: Do you think if you could redesign the badge or program in a way, could you have made it better? Or do you think there is something fundamental about using badges in educational programs that will always feel that way?
JR: I think badges would always feel that way in the program we ran. But I don’t think it’s because of the badges. I think it’s because the way the badges had been designed relies so much on the platform. There are so many steps and structure: this is where you design the badges, this is where you log in, this is where you go apply for badges, this is where you receive them. It’s less about the value of the badge for the kid, it’s more about what the platform needs to function.
It’s interesting because we are teaching about arduino, here at the Seattle Public Library. For arduino you need certain proficiencies to move forward. You need to understand pins, and you need to understand input and outputs, etc. Some people were suggesting that we create badges, so that you show you already understand something before moving forward. So for your question, I don’t want to give a verdict like “you can’t use badges in educational programs.” It may make sense sometimes. But I think that we need to really be careful about the purpose of the badge, and what value it actually adds to the experience of the young person or of their journey.
KM: I definitely see how the platform can constrain what people can do with badges. I’m wondering if you are freed from those constraints, and it doesn’t need to be a digital OBI badge, then can badges be successful?
JR: They could, they just need to be so embedded in the experience. What I see with badges, they are just an add-on, a sort of “Oh, by the way, now you have to do these things.” I wonder if it has more to do with the learning that happens in the program. That’s why I mentioned the arduino program, because that use feels interesting. Now that I have the LED badge, I know how to make an LED blink, and I can move into the “make a button work” portion of the curriculum. It provides that pre-requisite checking, or scaffolding. It has to be a part of something that adds value to the actual experience.
I think I saw one of the best badges designs at a film-making education program in NYC. It was this beautiful badge design around film-making and it made sense because it was related to the skills that you needed to develop. For example, if you are a cameraman the badges reward very concrete things: are you able to turn on the camera, can you do white-balance, do you know how to change the angle. If you are a script-writer: do you know what a scene is, do you know how to describe a shot. All of them were very measurable and very useful to you, and they made sense together as a whole. The camera, the script-writing, the audio, the lighting. You could see how you could take these pathways and complete all of these skills if you wanted to really become a film-maker. This is a badge system that I hope is put out as a best case example. It’s easy for someone to see how these can be really useful in guiding someone through a learning experience.
KM: Any final thoughts on where we can go with badges?
JR: If we are going to make digital badges, we need to think carefully about what the badges mean for the young people they are designed for, and for the programs that use them.
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